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  1. #21
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    I agree that they have their place. Lol....an i def agree with your clomid an how it effects you....i personally hate clomid and dont ever use it.
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

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  2. #22
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    Id put cycle support in its own catagory. Yes i think all should use something for cycle support. I like tudca an think its an awsome support , however i find it unessisary to spend x amount on supps when other avenues have the same or better effects. Ie, tudca is great but it only pretty much help keeping bile flowing (wich is a must for health) but it does very little for overall health if that makes sense.its great in one particular way not very well rounded. Then you have liver supports wich unlike tudca only help detox or flush the liver an not do much in terms bile flow. And then you have your lipids lol.....

    Everyone gets so caught up in liver enzymes becoming high and think that their gonna die....wich isnt the case. The liver is a very resiliant organ....thats not to say you shouldnt take pecausions....but even the "good" supps that are supposed to help can act against other organs. Liver enzymes for 90% people are always higher than normal just from the foods we eat due to pesticides an what not , the air we breath can cause them to rise aswell.

    I personally think you should research an find 1 mabe two products that help the whole system vs 10 tfor individual usage.

    Honestly something like nac and Himalayan liver support is all anyone really needs. Neither do much in terms of what tudca does for bile flow but really ......bile flow shouldnt be that bad unless your exceding normal dosages of said orals and using for prolonged cycles.

    Most oral steroids should be limited to 4-6 weeks at most.
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by garryb View Post
    Id put cycle support in its own catagory. Yes i think all should use something for cycle support. I like tudca an think its an awsome support , however i find it unessisary to spend x amount on supps when other avenues have the same or better effects. Ie, tudca is great but it only pretty much help keeping bile flowing (wich is a must for health) but it does very little for overall health if that makes sense.its great in one particular way not very well rounded. Then you have liver supports wich unlike tudca only help detox or flush the liver an not do much in terms bile flow. And then you have your lipids lol.....

    Everyone gets so caught up in liver enzymes becoming high and think that their gonna die....wich isnt the case. The liver is a very resiliant organ....thats not to say you shouldnt take pecausions....but even the "good" supps that are supposed to help can act against other organs. Liver enzymes for 90% people are always higher than normal just from the foods we eat due to pesticides an what not , the air we breath can cause them to rise aswell.

    I personally think you should research an find 1 mabe two products that help the whole system vs 10 tfor individual usage.

    Honestly something like nac and Himalayan liver support is all anyone really needs. Neither do much in terms of what tudca does for bile flow but really ......bile flow shouldnt be that bad unless your exceding normal dosages of said orals and using for prolonged cycles.

    Most oral steroids should be limited to 4-6 weeks at most.
    first of all kudos you know your stuff. you are an asset to this forum. thank you for being here

    but as im sure you know by your knowledge. the way aas damages the liver is but causing Bile flow to be impaired.

    steriod cause the liver to swell and hold bile that would nomally be secreted in the digestive tract .The damage caused by bile acid accumulation in the liver is called cholestatic liver damage.

    Almost no other liver repair can claim this and why tudca is the best for heavy oral cycles. i agree it isnt needed for every cycles but somone who relies on heavy oral comsuption should use it. and ph's lets be honest some of it is crap but some of them have been proven to be more toxic then aas in the past and now illegal

    examples of other supplements you have stated

    Milk Thistle is an excellent anti oxidant but no help with cholestasis or bile accumilation.

    (NAC) produces glutathione which is another excellent anti oxidant, it helps protect against toxins but also limited in being able to treat cholestasis

    liv-52 yet another great anto oxidant that will do nothing for bile buildup or call it cholestasis

    the best thing you can use is tudca in combo with one of these , but that is for ultra protection

    but tudca is the best choice of all for orals because the #1 problem steriods cause on the liver is bile buildup and tudca treats that specifically
    Last edited by cane; 10-26-2015 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #24
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    Right but on a price point..........nac + a liversupport will cost you half of a single bottle. Of tudca .

    Back in the day (70s & 80s) and even to this day , hrt/trt doctors will sugest or refer back to "mic" pills for complet liver detox from oral aas. From my research most docs that are willing to talk or give any advice ( per youtube or short videos) on aas use will tell you to not worry about any for of support until the cycle has ended as well. Not somethin id recomend , but it what ive seen quite a bit.
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

    garryb's youtube channel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr4...Y&noredirect=1

  5. #25
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    The bile build up isnt the real problem tho.....from my gathering. Its what doctors call a fatty liver .anabolics like winny will drop ldl or hdl.....i forget to low serious numbers within days of taking. I forget how it all works but essentially you clog the liver with a build up of shit...lol...wich the "mic" pills would essentially mobolize the fatty build up in the liver thus allowing it to be less stressed.

    Ill have to find the doc that talks about it.
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

    garryb's youtube channel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr4...Y&noredirect=1

  6. #26
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    Found it.lol......

    Mic:
    Choline barbituate, inositol And l-methionine
    Last edited by garryb; 10-27-2015 at 12:14 AM.
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

    garryb's youtube channel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr4...Y&noredirect=1

  7. #27
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    This one you will like cane. 😉 as it goes with your statements. Its a good read .nothing that im sure most dont know . even tho it talks mostly about tudca ( wich i belive to be a great supplement)

    My whole point for all this is that for what you pay for in tudca you can get more out of the nac and Himalayan liver support. (Not particularly liv52, i use the other liver support by Himalayan)

    http://forums.steroidal.com/educatio...otectants.html
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

    garryb's youtube channel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr4...Y&noredirect=1

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by garryb View Post
    The bile build up isnt the real problem tho.....from my gathering. Its what doctors call a fatty liver .anabolics like winny will drop ldl or hdl.....i forget to low serious numbers within days of taking. I forget how it all works but essentially you clog the liver with a build up of shit...lol...wich the "mic" pills would essentially mobolize the fatty build up in the liver thus allowing it to be less stressed.

    Ill have to find the doc that talks about it.
    this below and this is exactly what TUDCA fights better then anything out there,

    Cholestasis is the most common form of liver damage that is characteristic of the use/abuse of oral anabolic steroids(4). It is the condition whereby bile is unable to properly flow throguhout the liver and into the duodenum (the first section of the small intestine that connects to the stomach). This can occur as the result of a physical (also known as a mechanical) blockage, such as gallstones or a tumor formation causing blockage. The other form of blockage is in the form of a chemical blockage (also known as metabolic cholestasis), which is cholestasis that is resultant of a disruption of the hepatic cells' ability to properly manufacture and flow bile. C17AA anabolic steroids cause metabolic (chemical) cholestasis. Metabolic cholestasis can also be the result of a hereditary genetic dysfunction, and there are plenty of other substances, drugs, and medications that can cause cholestasis as well. In order to understand cholestasis, it is important to know what bile is and what it does for us.

    Bile is a dark green/yellow to brown fluid that is manufactured by the cells of the liver, and consists of 85% water, 10% bile salts, 3% muscuous and pigments, 1% fats, and 0.7% inorganic salts. The primary function of bile is to digest fats that are consumed in food, making it a very important component in the digestion and processing of food. Because it is involved in the digestion and breakdown of fats, it is very important for the proper breakdown and absorption of fat-based and fat soluble compounds (such as many types of vitamins). In addition to this, bile serves to act as an excretion vehicle for the transport of metabolites out of the liver, such as bilirubin which is a metabolic byproduct as a result of the liver cells recycling red blood cells. Finally, an additional function that bile serves (and this is very important) is the neutralizing of acidity of the contents of the stomach (as a result of stomach acid) before it enters the intestines. A simultaneous role bile plays in that process is also a disinfectant, killing bacteria that could be in the ingested food.

    When the C17AA anabolic steroids inhibit the flow of bile in the liver, bile will build up in the small bile ducts of the liver forming plugs (known as canalicular bile plugs). The cells of the liver (hepatocytes) will continue to attempt to excrete bile as they normally would, but as bile accumulates due to the plugs, enough pressure will build until the lining cells of the bile ducts rupture. As a result, bile spills out onto other cells and tissue, resulting in cell death. Cells will begin to build up with bile as well (more common in intrahepatic chemical/metabolic cholestasis), and without proper flow of bile, the cells will die. This build-up of bile is known as a bile pool, and while not all of the bile acids contained in the bile pool are hepatotoxic, most of them are, and this is why the bile pool accumulation results in liver cell death. C17AA anabolic steroids cause intracellular bile retention within the hepatocytes (bile accumulation inside the liver cells).
    Last edited by cane; 10-27-2015 at 02:04 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by garryb View Post
    This one you will like cane. �� as it goes with your statements. Its a good read .nothing that im sure most dont know . even tho it talks mostly about tudca ( wich i belive to be a great supplement)

    My whole point for all this is that for what you pay for in tudca you can get more out of the nac and Himalayan liver support. (Not particularly liv52, i use the other liver support by Himalayan)

    http://forums.steroidal.com/educatio...otectants.html
    i will read this tomorrow bro. im half asleep now, its 3am est time, where im at. thanks for the posts, i really enjoy it. We need activity on this forum.. more of it.Every post you make is helping this place and i appreciate

  10. #30
    Major Contributor garryb's Avatar
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    Lol.its all good.
    Were both saying tudca is good.
    Your opinion is like the article says...."should be #1."

    I however think you can do the same an more cheaper with nac and Himalayan. Just my opinion.

    Lol.no need to kkeep going. Im pickin up what your putin down.lol
    PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH.
    CHANCES ARE THE QUESTIONS YOUR ASKING HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

    garryb's youtube channel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr4...Y&noredirect=1

 

 

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